Kreinik Cousin Marriages

Dear Cousins,

The photos that Herb sent sent me into a flurry of research which revealed several of cousin marriages.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1skd7vy2eqezm4/Kreinik%20Cousins%20Rauch%20Tree.png?dl=0

1. Norman and Roberta Rauch's mother, Sylvia Sternlicht, is the daughter of Eva Chawa Kreinik, who is the daughter of Tuyve Kreinik and Frimet Neppel Feiler

2. Harry Hirsch Rauch (in the Kreinik Boys and Rauch photo) is the son of Baruch Rauch and Anna Chana Kreinik. I haven't figured out who her parents are. Any guesses?

3. Teddy Stieber is the son of Leah Kreinik, who is the daughter of Nathan and Rachele Kreinik. There is some evidence that Rachele is the daughter of Jacob Kreinik and Cyfro Tsipa Lichtenshal. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qnridwarfye1j9h/Screenshot%202020-06-16%2009.58.31.png?dl=0

I am not sure of what to make of all these cousin marriages. DNA analyses would show a lot of common material -- much more than simple cousins of the nominal degree.

I am trying to get in touch with Roberta Rauch Fachler and her twin brother Norman Rauch to see if they can confirm that the Rauch in the Kreinik Boys and Rauch photo is indeed their father, Harry. Does anyone have Roberta's phone number?

Art and Ida are right that this process goes best when lots of minds collaborate.

====== letter =========

Dear Kreinik Relatives,

In the latest round of genealogical research I uncovered yet another cousin marriage. 

Stanley Kreinik knew about many of these, but I did not process what was implied until much later.

Nathan Kreinik (1854-1937) married his cousin Rachele Kreinik; date unknown.

Sarah Kreinik (1892-1976) married Isidore Kreinik (1888-1982) on  16 Dec 1912. This was one of the first cousin marriages I heard about from Andrew Kreinik.

Harry Rauch (1904-1998), the son of Anna/Chana Kreinik (b.1881), married Sylvia/Cypra Sternlicht (1913-2007), the daughter of Eva Chawa Kreinik, on 29 Dec 1941. Sylvia is the daughter of Tuvye Kreinik and Frimet Neppel Feiler. 

Teddy Steiber (1907-1981), son of  Leah/Lilli Kreiniik (1883-1956) (who is the daughter of cousins Nathan and Rachele, above) married Jean/Jennie Rauch (1906-1998), the daughter of Anna/Chana Kreinik (b.1881), who is the daughter of Jacob Kreinik (1830-1933) and Cyfro Lichtenthal.

My own brother Ira Jacobowitz married our mother's niece, Leslie Danziger, but this may be considered 'marrying out.'

I counted 16 individuals in the tree involved in cousin marriages. Five of those unions were within the Kreinik side.

Here is a report of all the marriages of the descendants of Khaim Kreinik.

This graphic representation shows the complexity, Cousin marriages are indicated by the long, horizontal lines connecting disparate parts of the tree.

I have a history of interest in consanguinity. When I was in Hebrew School in Englewood, I asked my teacher, David Rosenbaum, if I remember, who did Cain and Abel marry? (Could only be their sisters or their mother, to my thinking). Perhaps our origin story was one of incest. David R. did not want to answer that (impertinent?) question, so he sent me to the principal. I thought this might be where the magic and power of story-telling would be revealed. But, no. The principal said they married angels. Then I suspected that the literal reading was bullshit. Perhaps there was another reading, but I was too young to be initiated. "Oh, that Adam and Eve story, that's what we tell little kids."

Maybe the curtain would be pulled back and I would be initiated into the mysteries and strength of the Jewish tradition. Or was I stil a little kid? Isn't Hebrew School is supposed to teach a sophisticated approach to Judaism? I was disillusioned.

Now I realize that I in revisiting the issue of Consanguinity, I am restating my 12-year-old's question.

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/8p9eqhxmdl34sdx/Consanguineous%20Marriage%20and%20Human%20Evolution.pdf?dl=0.

In early populations, there were very few people one could marry. What are the ramifications of that practice, and when did it begin to change? "..in the United States, where first-cousin marriage is illegal or a criminal offense in 31 of the 50 states"

Linda and I have been discussing the issue. She pointed out that even if the literal reading were to be taken, and the boys married their sisters, that would be true for only one generation. After that would be cousin marriages.

Now we have to figure out who are the parents of the other Anna Kreinik (b.1879) who married Elias Laub.

Pinia Kreinik Laub in Yad VaShem died in Sedziszow Mlp in 1942 along with many of her family. 

Kreinik Boys Photos

Herb Kreinik shared these images on 14 June 2020:

DJ: At first Ida thought that the youngest boy was her father Marcus Lazer. But the dates belie that call.

Herb:

Here are copies of both “Kreinik Bros & Rauch” photo post cards, front and back. The earlier print is labelled Pix “A” (front and back); the later print is labelled Pix “B” (front and back).

Note that both prints (undated) were made at the Victoria Photo Shop, #57 2nd Ave, NYC.

Also attached are scans of two clippings to show what Morris looked like in 1921 and 1922.  So I think the prints of the “Bros” were from the early 1920’s (in NYC).

I suspect that Andrew Kreinik may have more info on Messr Rauch, though I don’t have his email address.

Art and Ida, 14 Jun 2020:

Hello and thank you for this very valuable additional information. I will denote 4 items that may help us better define the issues . 1] Marcus did not arrive in the USA until 1953 therefore the man in Pix A that Ida initially said was her Dad could not in fact be so if that photo was taken in NYC in 1921-1922.; 2] Ida also surprised that the 2 men [right side ] in Pix A that she thinks are Morris and Manny were in NYC in 1921-1922. She believed that they were still in Poland at that time. ; 3] Ida only recognizes Manny and Morris in Pix B. ; 4]Ida would like to know if Herb could tell us what year Manny and Morris came to USA.;   

Morris arrived in 1912 and Manny in 1920.

New York, Naturalization Petitions, 1794-1906

Name: Morris Kreinik

Record Type: Petition

Birth Date: 12 Mar 1897

Birth Place: Galicia, Austria

Arrival Date: 9 Jun 1912

Arrival Place: New York

Petition Place: New York, USA

Petition Number: 127480

Name: Manny Kreinik

Petition Age: 22

Record Type: Petition

Birth Date: 21 May 1904

Birth Place: Sedzizzow Poland (Austria)

Arrival Date: 7 Dec 1920

Arrival Place:New York, New York

Petition Date: 11 Oct 1926

Petition Place: New York, USA

Is it possible that Rauch is Harry Hirsch Rauch

Born 17 Dec 1904 in Poland

Death 2 Jul 1998, Old Bridge, Middlesex, New Jersey, USA

He married Cousin Sylvia Cypra Sarah Sternlicht in 1941;

Their daughter Roberta Rauch might be able to identify her father.

I just re-read a message from Stanley Kreinik from Aug 18 2013: "Hi David, I just got off the phone with Roberta Fachler. She is the daughter of Harry Rauch and Sylvia Sternlicht. Harry was a cousin whose mother was a Kreinik. Roberta has a twin brother I think his name is David. Harry, had two sisters, one was married to a Teddy Schtierber (Stieber -- Ruth Kreinik) (I'm not sure of the spelling) I told Roberta that you would get in touch with her. Her E -Mail address is facltf@juno.com Roberta is 69 and her husband is 70. She will give you a lot of info. She is the granddaughter of Chaim and Eva Sternlicht. I hope this will help you with some new info. Be well Stanley"

That would mean that Barney Rauch's wife was Anna Kreinik. Here is her Naturalization Paper.

Search JOWBR for Sedziszow

It has been several years since we put up the photos of graves at Mt Hebron Cemetery. (The local photos have been removed.)

There are now 292 records found in New York when you search for Sedziszow. These seem to be the records that we put up.

But there is also a hit for Shendishev in Canada, for Celia SILVERMAN Siegel.

There is one for Abram Kaminski in Germany.
And one for Baruch Leib Rubin in the Netherlands.

Perhaps one day we will have a huge list of people associated with Sedziszow Malopolski. https://www.geni.com/people/Celia-Siegel/6000000075040593841

USC Shoah Foundation Sedziszow Project

Debra Storch found testimony tapes at the USC Shoah Foundation Visual History Archive Online.

My Projects - Sedziszow Malopolski Connections. 
Filter
Collection:All Language:All Gender:All Experience:None project:None
Selected Text (All Words)
Sedziszow

There were 34 entries tagged 'Sedziszow.' Are any names familiar?


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Tape Label	Language	Experience	Segment	Interview Code
Eli Kleinman	English	Jewish Survivor	0	1236
Regina Benczkowski	English	Jewish Survivor	0	1353
Mark Emmer	English	Jewish Survivor	0	1481
Henry Rotmensch	English	Jewish Survivor	0	1972
Leonie Bergman	English	Jewish Survivor	0	2477
Raymond Drillings	English	Jewish Survivor	0	5372
Aron Salzman	English	Jewish Survivor	0	5501
Szalom Weinberger	English	Jewish Survivor	0	12025
Irving Drillings	English	Jewish Survivor	0	12078
Morris Goldner	English	Jewish Survivor	0	10474
Martin Rosenberg	English	Jewish Survivor	0	15495
Gavri´el Morgensṭern	Hebrew	Jewish Survivor	0	16353
Shmu´el Ya`aḳov Nusboym	Hebrew	Jewish Survivor	0	17876
Sol Blaufeld	English	Jewish Survivor	0	18693
Pinkas Wolf	English	Jewish Survivor	0	19750
Tsviya Shvartsba´um	Hebrew	Jewish Survivor	0	21647
John Rotmensch	English	Jewish Survivor	0	23285
Rose Hollander	English	Jewish Survivor	0	23374
Esther Kozlowski	English	Jewish Survivor	0	25640
Marian Kalwary	Polish	Jewish Survivor	0	25584
Regina Kluska	English	Jewish Survivor	0	30065
Norman Belfer	English	Jewish Survivor	0	28427
Aron Neumann	German	Jewish Survivor	0	29948
Shemu´el Noyman	Hebrew	Jewish Survivor	0	33581
Sigmund Tobias	English	Jewish Survivor	0	35109
Yoḥanan ´amsṭerdam	Hebrew	Jewish Survivor	0	39822
Sarah Kohen	Hebrew	Jewish Survivor	0	41324
Yoram-Y´anush Simoni	Hebrew	Jewish Survivor	0	41228
Michael Spier	English	Jewish Survivor	0	45770
Beneḳ Sheṿarts	Hebrew	Jewish Survivor	0	47480
Sara Holländer Studnicki	Hebrew	Jewish Survivor	0	51309
Esther Kozlowski	English	Jewish Survivor	0	53019
L. Greenwood	English	Jewish Survivor	0	54143
Bernard Lipman	English	Jewish Survivor	0	55045

Debby has several people in her tree who were from Sedziszow Malopolski or nearby.

Alter Gerstenfeld.

Rachel Drelich.

Beckie/Beki (Brendel) Gerstenfeld.

Feige Gerstenfeld.

Leon (Lieber) Gerstenfeld.

Regina Gerstenfeld Gross.

Gitla Weintraub.
Aron Weintraub.

Others in Debby's tree are from Tarnow, Lancut or simply Poland.

Rena Weilder Kreinik Wattenberg

Copies of correspondence about Joe Kreinik's wife, Rena, who was hidden in Poland by the Zamorski family.

On 1/2/19 5:37 AM, maria.sehen@yadvashem.org.il wrote:

Dear Mr. Jacobowitz,

 

I work in Yad Vashem Institute in Jerusalem, Israel in the Department of Righteous Among the Nations.

According to the law of the establishment of Yad Vashem, the Righteous Among the Nations are those non-Jews who risked their lives to save Jews during the Holocaust. The title is awarded by a special public commission, chaired by a retired Supreme Court Justice, according to a well-defined set of rules and criteria. Every case is thoroughly researched and all the material is gathered before it is submitted to the Commission. One of the basic requirements is to have testimonies of the survivors or persons that were helped that describe the circumstances of the rescue and the nature of the help that was extended. Based on that the commission goes on to examine whether the aid falls within the criteria for awarding the title.

 

Someone brought to our attention a story of Rena Wattenberg (primo voto Kreinik, nee Weilder) born in Stanislawow (Poland) to Joachim and Regina (Tannenbaum). She survived the war with help she received from Zamorski family and later married Joe Kreinik and lived in Toronto, Canada. I have found some documents but I am now searching for some family of Rena to find out more details about the story. I am writing to you cause I saw on your blog some posts about Kreinik family and I am hoping you might know something or could help me getting in touch with someone, who could maybe provide me with some more details / additional documents regarding her survival story and the role of Zamorski family.

I will greatly appreciate your help.

Best regards,

Maria Sehen

 

Ms. Maria Sehen   | מריה סחן

Polish Desk | דסק פולין

Righteous Among the Nations dept. | Yad Vashem

מחלקת חסידי אומות העולם | יד ושם

Tel. +972-(0)2-6443459 / Fax. +972-(0)2-6443743

maria.sehen@yadvashem.org.il

From: David Jacobowitz [mailto:djacobow@uvm.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2019 9:40 PM
To: סחן מריה
Cc: Arthur Friedlander ; Andrew Kreinik ; Ruth Kreinik ; Ruth Knoll ; Stanley Kreinik ; Steve Maskell
Subject: Re: Kreinik family

Dear Ms. Sehen,

I am so glad you found my notes on Rena. Those few family members who met her did not know much about her, but you have provided her maiden name and those of her parents and the last name of her second husband. Thank you for that information.

I have posted your letter on a Google Group for people interested in the Kreinik family: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/the-kreinikle and have made other inquiries to Ida Kreinik Friedlander, Stanley Kreinik, Ruth Kreinik, Andrew Kreinik and Ruth Knoll.

Here are the genealogy pages I have made for Rena:

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/63720955/person/40110778504/facts .

https://www.geni.com/people/Rena-Kreinik/6000000010841959232 .

Where can we find out more about the Zamorski family and Mr. Wattenberg's first name?

Thank you for getting in touch. This will certainly increase our knowledge of our family as well as help to honor those who have helped Rena, and thus the Kreinik family.

Best wishes,

David Jacobowitz

South Burlington, Vermont, USA

=======
 Wednesday, January 02, 2019 11:12 PM
Dear Mrs. Sehen,

I met and spoke with Rena Kreinik Wattenburg when I was in Toronto about 40 years ago.  At that time she told me about how she was hidden/saved by a Polish family but she did not give me any names.  Her second husband, Mr. Wattenburg, told me that he was hidden underground on a farm in Poland by a Christian friend but again, there were no names discussed.

If I can be of more assistance, please let me know.

Best regards,

Andrew Kreinik

========

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 5:20 AM 

Dear Mr. Kreinik,

Thank you for contacting me so fast!

I wonder, did Rena have any children? Do you know or could you find out if she left any documents behind? Maybe some diary, memoirs, letters that somehow relate to the story (where she talks about her war experiences or some correspondence with the rescuers)? If there's anything of that sort I would much appreciate receiving a copy. The language is not a problem for us – I am a native Polish speaker and collectively we know all the necessary languages.

Also, do you remember anything from what she told you then? I understand that after so many years it's impossible to remember all the details, but it could be helpful to know how she was talking about her rescuers, if they knew she was Jewish while they were hiding her, what were her experiences there etc. Basically, anything you might remember.

Best regards,

Maria Sehen

============

From: andrew kreinik [mailto:akreinik@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 3:19 PM
To: סחן מריה
Cc: Arthur Friedlander ; Ruth Kreinik ; Ruth Knoll ; Stanley Kreinik ; Steve Maskell ; David Jacobowitz
Subject: Re: Kreinik family

Dear Ms. Sehen,

Rena did not go into much detail about being hidden.  She spoke more about meeting her first husband Joe and the move to Canada.  They had laundromats.  Just when they really started making money and felt successful, Joe died.  She felt that it was one of the ironies of life. She did miss having family.  I don't believe that there were any children as I am sure she would have mentioned it.  Perhaps, you could learn from the Ontario government who the executor of her estate was...or that of Syzmon.  Any papers or diaries would have passed to that person.  Or, perhaps, a nearby synagogue has papers in its archives.

Her second husband, Syzmon, was very clear that his friend who hid him underground at the farm knew that he was Jewish.

Sorry, I can't be more helpful.  I was just moving from Canada back to the US when I met Rena.

Best regards,

Andrew Kreinik

=======

1/2/19, 3:41 PM

Dear David,

I wish you a Happy & Healthy New Year. Thanks for this new info about my Aunt Rena. I got the same this morning from my cousin Ida Friedlander and have forwarded same to my brother Herb.

As you know I've given you as much as I remembered about Rena. This new information is interesting. Every little bit counts.

Ruth

=========

3 Jan 2018 5:06 AM EST

Dear Mr. Jackobowitz,

Thank you for getting back to me so fast. I really appreciate that a lot.

The documents (letters from Rena and a testimony of Mr. Zamorski) are available in Jewish Historical Institute in Warsaw. All the personal data is from ITS. The name of Mr. Wattenberg was Szymon. I did not research him, as I am focused on the survival story only. However, if you are interested you can also ask about him (and all the others) in the Jewish Historical Institute. They also have a genealogical department there and maybe can find out more about the whole family.

Best regards,

Maria Sehen

When Did Mary DANZIGER Paris Immigrate?

November 14, 2017. 

I think we still don't have any record of Mary coming over. It appears that Abe and Mary were married in Poland before 1912, when Abe came over and before Mary gave birth to Lillian on 01 Nov 1913 in Ohio.

There are two pages from a ship manifest arrival document in English and one departure document in German. 

On the German departure document, dated 2-Aug-1912 on line 12, I see only "Paris, Abram" then a slash under männlich (man) and no slash nearby under weiblich (woman).

Under age there is "23" and then in column 7 (indicating family land) is a ditto mark which is assume means P as above, for Poland.

Then column 8 says "Radom" and 9 has another ditto mark. 

Columns 10 and 11 I can't read, but it doesn't seem to be Marien.

(The page to the right starts the column numbers over at 2 and is more of the list of passengers, not a continuation of Abe's information.)

D1. The German departure document is headed: "... Prinz Oskar n. 2/8.12. Phila" or 2 August 1912.

A1. The Header on this one is "S.S. Prinz Oskar sailing from Hamburg" dated 

Paris on far left

Sheet A.1, "Arriving at the Port of Philadelphia"  on 20 August 1912, in English, shows Marien listed as the person closest in the old country along with Meyer, his father-in-law.

Detail: Radom, Myer, Marien Paris, Cleveland, Radom 

Mentioned in the area for closest contact in country from whence: Radom, Myer, Marien Paris, Cleveland, Radom

Here is the transcription of the arrival document A.1:

Abram Paris 
in the Pennsylvania, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1800-1962 
Name: Abram Paris 
Gender: Male 
Race: Hebrew 
Nationality: Hebrew 
Arrival Age: 23 
Birth Date: abt 1889 
Birth Place: Siedlowec, Russia 
Last Residence: Russia- Radom 
Departure Place: Hamburg, Germany 
Arrival Date: 20 Aug 1912 
Arrival Place: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA 
Spouse: Marien Paris 
Friend or Relative: Marien Paris - in old country, Radom -- maybe she didn't come with Abe. 
Relationship to Passenger: Wife 
Ship: Prinz Oskar

A2. The arrival document Susan Paris found in the Cleveland Library has the header: "Arriving at Port of Philadelphia, Pa" dated Aug. 20, 1912. There are two separate files for page 1 and page 2.

Clip from A.2

Abram Paris cites his sister-in-law Chana Danziger as his destination at  4882 East 35th. Street Cleveland. 

So it is clear that Anna/Chana was the first to immigrate. How did she pick Cleveland?

More things to be considered.